M4 Sherman M4A4 |

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 7, 2015 22:31:58 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 7, 2015 22:31:58 GMT -5

I have my M50 on hold waiting for some supplies and assesories, so decided to do one of the British M4A4's. No particular tank, but more or less like the WWII picture attached. I got it this far, and had the VVSS done up with the spoke wheels, just because I like that type.

While surfing the net I came across the restored M4A4, improperly marked as a US tank. And, it has the spoke wheels. I found out the pressed wheels are the standard wheel on the M4A4 and spoke wheels are unlikely except as a replacement.

The front wheel on the Hussars M4A4 is likely a spoke wheel. but the back 4 are the pressed type. I want to do this tank because it is a unmodified M4A4, no applique armor, but has the non-padded lifting eyes. The hatch stops are an add on, and there does not seem to be any springs.

So, any thoughts? Use the boogies I made up, or go with a new set with the pressed wheels? I intend to cast up the Tasca pressed wheel, with the rivets added, once it cools off and I can get my casting station rebuilt.

Lance
M4

Posts: 45

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 8, 2015 3:04:14 GMT -5

Quote

Post by Lance on Sept 8, 2015 3:04:14 GMT -5

Personally I would go for pressed wheels unless building from a period photo. Chryslerwerke didn't seem to do spoked wheels so any examples of that on M4A4's were probably the result of field modification/repair or expedience on the part of restorers as per your photo.

Disclaimer. We are talking about Shermans so never say never.

bigjohn Global Moderator Administrator Posts: 569	M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 8, 2015 5:34:52 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by bigjohn on Sept 8, 2015 5:34:52 GMT -5 Just took a peek through SoS and even the early M4A4's had pressed spoke wheels, so... I guess I'd say go with the press spoke wheels as well.

m4sherman M4 If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman! Posts: 50	M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 8, 2015 8:20:24 GMT -5 bigjohn likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by m4sherman on Sept 8, 2015 8:20:24 GMT -5 Thanks for the thoughts, confirming what I didn't want to admit! Pressed it will be, and the spoke wheel boogies will go on one of the M4A1's I have stashed. Darn tiny little rivets...

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 8, 2015 19:10:13 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 8, 2015 19:10:13 GMT -5

I got very little done today because I was trying to sort out the technical details on the rear hull, and got tied up on the internet looking at stuff.

A box of Tasca sprues showed up, but I had to go to the Post office to get it. I can now, with the help of an M4A1 kit, make up a DV M4A2. So, I put in another order.

The .010 x .020 strips are on the hull and will become welds in a few days. On the lower hull I ended up using the bent over eye plates because I learned they were there so the tank could be secured in a landing craft, and I noticed there are some welds missing on the lower hull rear plate, and, I have no idea how the rear plate was welded on at the sides.

I added rivets on a road wheel using circles punched out with my old Historex round punch set. This will be the master for a resin cast set. New resin should be here in a couple weeks, and by then it might be cool enough in the early mornings to do some casting. I added rivets to both sides of the wheel.

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 8, 2015 22:59:23 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 8, 2015 22:59:23 GMT -5

I found an unmodified M4A4 rear hull to use as a base reference. Of interest are the 2 pipes in the upper left. The thin one is the radiator over flow or breather tube, the bigger one is the crank case/oil breather.

I want to add Gary's tow bar, but google didn't help me any.

dogfish7 M4A1 So many Shermans ..... so little time Posts: 442	M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 9, 2015 9:34:42 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by dogfish7 on Sept 9, 2015 9:34:42 GMT -5 Nice touch on the weld joints.
	Bruce

Lance
M4

Posts: 45

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 11, 2015 18:41:58 GMT -5

Quote

Post by Lance on Sept 11, 2015 18:41:58 GMT -5

This should help with the tow bar, it's a link Gary sent me a while back and I just came across it again.

I hadn't seen this type of tow bar until recently but after looking at the page on the link below I saw a period photograph of the rear of a Firefly which was fitted with one. Not as common as the 17pdr tow bar with leaf springs normally seen on Brit tanks but it was out there none the less.

Photo link

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 11, 2015 22:02:20 GMT -5 bullardino (Luigi) likes this

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 11, 2015 22:02:20 GMT -5

Lance, thanks, I found that looking at Gary's M4A4. Hoping to see a bit more. Is the rectangular bar hollow or solid? I can just copy what Gary came up with.

Attached are some more pictures of the M4A4 rear showing some details you don't usually see.

Lance
M4

Posts: 45

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 12, 2015 5:20:18 GMT -5

Quote

Post by Lance on Sept 12, 2015 5:20:18 GMT -5

I kinda assumed the bar is hollow for some reason, maybe because the brackets are cut from sheet steel so they look to be so much weaker than a solid bar to my eyes.

But the thing is, unless you plan to model an upturned wreck there is no way anyone could tell either way so to my mind the argument is purely academic.

gary
M4A1

Posts: 183

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 13, 2015 2:57:05 GMT -5

Quote

Post by gary on Sept 13, 2015 2:57:05 GMT -5

Sorry for the delayed response

The only reference I had was the vehicle featured on the Armorama site. I just used a solid piece of styrene but would think that the original part was a piece of square tube. As you say, the ends won't be visible on the model though.

Gary

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 13, 2015 14:21:02 GMT -5 bullardino (Luigi) likes this

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 13, 2015 14:21:02 GMT -5

Well, if I put the time to do the lower hull welds, I'm sort of over committed! I am in the process of doing the exhaust like the underside of Forceful III. I discovered Shapeways has the pressed road wheels for about $18.00. I decided to get a set for evaluation.

Progress...

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 14, 2015 0:53:06 GMT -5 bullardino (Luigi) likes this

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 14, 2015 0:53:06 GMT -5

I decided to try Gary's technique on the tie downs on my turret. All I had for wire is old electric motor wire from very old Tamiya kits. I burned off the insulation with a candle flame, and added the tiny discs using .010 plastic punch outs. Not very polished, but...

gary M4A1 Posts: 183	M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 14, 2015 3:51:42 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by gary on Sept 14, 2015 3:51:42 GMT -5 Look the part to me Gary

m4sherman M4 If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman! Posts: 50	M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 15, 2015 17:46:03 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by m4sherman on Sept 15, 2015 17:46:03 GMT -5 Sept 14, 2015 3:51:42 GMT -5 gary said: Look the part to me Gary Too true!

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 15, 2015 18:01:34 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 15, 2015 18:01:34 GMT -5

Moving along slowly. I found several pictures showing the side turret smoke launchers bracket, but no launchers. The part is in the M4A4 kit. The green blob is an add on casting defect to add character.

I had a turret bin that came with an M4A2. I made one out of .010 plastic so I could bend up a corner, also for a little character. I still need to make the locking clip/clamps, add a few more bolts and welds on the mounting strips. The tie downs I made for the lower edge had to be removed for the bin to sit properly. I got the hatches on the ring, and forgot the grab handles. The white plastic on the right hatch is the periscope mount. In case I change my mind about adding a figure the hatch won't be glued on so I can always use a closed hatch.

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 15, 2015 21:46:17 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 15, 2015 21:46:17 GMT -5

The turret is almost finished. I have Archer casting numbers to put on, but the basics are done. The turret bin lid is on, the lid clamps are on and I added some putty welds to the mounting straps. My antennas are still on order as are some add on "armor" tracks.

m4sherman M4 If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman! Posts: 50	M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 16, 2015 19:40:55 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by m4sherman on Sept 16, 2015 19:40:55 GMT -5 Working on the lower hull. I replaced the exhaust grill with a single arced panel. If only there was an insert for behind the grill.

m4sherman M4 If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman! Posts: 50	M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 16, 2015 23:40:33 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by m4sherman on Sept 16, 2015 23:40:33 GMT -5 The rear is just about done. All that is left is cleaning up the welds once the filler hardens a bit longer. I ended up making the tow bar solid. The details are based on several M4A4's

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 20, 2015 16:33:30 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 20, 2015 16:33:30 GMT -5

With the more open air deflector you can see up inside the back of the hull. I decided to make up a fake engine that when painted the light grey of the original will show up through the mesh. It looks better than the picture.

I also decided to redo the rear hull details with thinner plastic. Now I am working on the upper hull.

The Shapeway road wheels came last night, but being clear I can't see all the details. I need to give them a primer coat before I decide to use them.

m4sherman M4 If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman! Posts: 50	M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 20, 2015 16:40:57 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by m4sherman on Sept 20, 2015 16:40:57 GMT -5 A better picture of the engine thing through the mesh, and the start of the tool brackets. I ordered in some #80 drills to use to drill the holes for the tie downs which is a big help.

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 22, 2015 23:07:24 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 22, 2015 23:07:24 GMT -5

More progress, slowly. The tool mounting bits are on, and I got the rear bin mounted. I got a Alpine tank commander, and test fitted him in the turret. I still have some stowage on order, and still no casting supplies. Time to work on the tracks...

dogfish7 M4A1 So many Shermans ..... so little time Posts: 442	M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 23, 2015 5:07:36 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by dogfish7 on Sept 23, 2015 5:07:36 GMT -5 Hopefully, we're learning allot from your builds. Awesome!
	Bruce

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 27, 2015 23:29:32 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 27, 2015 23:29:32 GMT -5

I've learned a bit on this Sherman. One little lesson is that the AFV Club Churchill tracks are a pain in the rump, but look good once in place.

The hull lift hooks are Shapeways items. I also got some road wheels but I want to give them a light coat of paint before trying them as they are clear.

Lance
M4

Posts: 45

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 28, 2015 3:43:17 GMT -5

Quote

Post by Lance on Sept 28, 2015 3:43:17 GMT -5

Those Churchill tracks may be a pain but they do add some nice visual interest. I'm interested in how your Shapeways wheels look. I got some and the detail was too mushy for my taste. Other parts were much sharper so maybe I got a bad set. Keep us posted

I was thinking that I might just as well cast up some improved Tasca wheels in resin

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 28, 2015 9:50:25 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 28, 2015 9:50:25 GMT -5

Sept 28, 2015 3:43:17 GMT -5 Lance said:

Those Churchill tracks may be a pain but they do add some nice visual interest. I'm interested in how your Shapeways wheels look. I got some and the detail was too mushy for my taste. Other parts were much sharper so maybe I got a bad set. Keep us posted

I was thinking that I might just as well cast up some improved Tasca wheels in resin

You could be right about the mushy details. Until I can get some thin paint on them I can't tell for sure.

I have a Taska wheel ready to cast, but my rubber and resin is still not shipped. I might have to look for another supplier!

m4sherman
M4

If you can't stand the heat, stay inside under the AC vent and build a Sherman!

Posts: 50

M4 Sherman M4A4 Sept 28, 2015 14:05:34 GMT -5

Quote

Post by m4sherman on Sept 28, 2015 14:05:34 GMT -5

I was over doing some trading with the nephews, they had a DML Cobra M4A1 kit, and neither build Shermans much, and they found a box of old resin stuff looking for some 30 cal ammo boxes I thought were in the stash.

One of the things in the bin was an original first run copy of the Firefly turret I did for Tank Workshop back in about 1994 or 5. The base was the turret out of the M4A3 Late kit. Way to rough, but that was the "in" thing before the internet. I still think it's not a bad turret considering the reference we had at the time.

The oval thing is a copy of the welded hood I was making for the Tamiya M4 hull, back when I could see better. It never got very far once DML started the Sherman run and I got burned out on Shermans.

Sherman Shop Sponsors

Sherman Shop Affiliates

M4 Sherman M4A4

Post by m4sherman on Sept 7, 2015 22:31:58 GMT -5

Post by Lance on Sept 8, 2015 3:04:14 GMT -5

Post by bigjohn on Sept 8, 2015 5:34:52 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 8, 2015 8:20:24 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 8, 2015 19:10:13 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 8, 2015 22:59:23 GMT -5

Post by dogfish7 on Sept 9, 2015 9:34:42 GMT -5

Post by Lance on Sept 11, 2015 18:41:58 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 11, 2015 22:02:20 GMT -5

Post by Lance on Sept 12, 2015 5:20:18 GMT -5

Post by gary on Sept 13, 2015 2:57:05 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 13, 2015 14:21:02 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 14, 2015 0:53:06 GMT -5

Post by gary on Sept 14, 2015 3:51:42 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 15, 2015 17:46:03 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 15, 2015 18:01:34 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 15, 2015 21:46:17 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 16, 2015 19:40:55 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 16, 2015 23:40:33 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 20, 2015 16:33:30 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 20, 2015 16:40:57 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 22, 2015 23:07:24 GMT -5

Post by dogfish7 on Sept 23, 2015 5:07:36 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 27, 2015 23:29:32 GMT -5

Post by Lance on Sept 28, 2015 3:43:17 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 28, 2015 9:50:25 GMT -5

Post by m4sherman on Sept 28, 2015 14:05:34 GMT -5