Greetings, gents! Thought that I'd toss this one out here and see what the interest level is. It's a flat-plate fabricated M50 deck, a variant not kitted before. It was definitely fitted to an M4A4-based M50, and the parts are scaled to fit a Tasca hull. What you see below is what would be in the kit: Main deck panel with intake screens & armored lids, two rear panels for '67 and earlier and '73, and the upturned exhaust added in '75. Hull sponson splash rails included as well. I think that I could bring this in under $20 and perhaps as low as $15, depending on volume. Let me know what you think; I just might add this to the product line.
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
Do you have any photos of it in application or how it looks?
Are you asking about a photo of the real deck, or of how these parts look on a model hull? I can provide either by Tuesday, as I'm enjoying a weekend at the coast with my wife this weekend. Sunny and 50 degrees plus at the Oregon Coast and little or no wind; as rare a condition in January as are sightings of M4A6's. Anyway, Gannon's book has an image of one of these in post-'75 configuration that I can scan, and I'll shoot images of the parts on my engineering mule hull.
Greg
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
This is what my master patterns look like on my engineering mule hull, which doesn't have complete M50 features. The turret is there for scale reference.
I did the masters for these myself, and what you see is primed plastic, not resin. But this is what it looks like installed.
Greg
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
Have you tried it on Dragon's M4A4 hull? I have the original Dragon M51 kit that came with M50 and M51 turrets and rear decks and was planning on pillaging it for the turret and deck to do a VVSS M50, but since joining over here, I'm having doubts.....
Have you tried it on Dragon's M4A4 hull? I have the original Dragon M51 kit that came with M50 and M51 turrets and rear decks and was planning on pillaging it for the turret and deck to do a VVSS M50, but since joining over here, I'm having doubts.....
Russ, my stuff will fit a Dragon hull with a little tweaking. In particular, the longitudinal shelves on which the engine deck sits must be trimmed back when fitting my parts to a Dragon hull; they are wider (extend further into the engine bay cavity) than with Tasca. A little sanding of the outside edges of the parts might also be needed. I'd be careful about fitting this to a VVSS hull, though...I'm not certain that the diesel was fitted to VVSS M50s. I suspect that since the engine change required a major rebuild anyway, that HVSS was done at the same time, along with the stowage arrangements similar to the early M51. Dr. Manasherob probably knows for sure, but the rest of us won't until he publishes the relevant volume in his book series.
I'd leave the Dragon turret alone, if I were you. I know you've been over on the thread for my turret master project, and I respectfully submit that my effort will be rather more accurate than Dragon's. I haven't had much time the last week or so to mess with it, so it's not a lot further along than how it looked at the last set of images. But life should settle down again in a week or so. I am trying to figure out what to do about a gun; it's looking like I'll have to have a barrel machined to my specs and make my own muzzle brake using the gun from an EBR-10 kit and correcting the shape issues it has. Dimensionally it's about right, but the contours on the back side of the "T" aren't right.
Greg
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
Okay.... So is there anything really wrong with the early, exhaust-in-the-rear-plate, no louvers, early Cummins deck that Dragon supplies? It looked okay to me, but I'm not extremely well versed in that area. If it's nasty, you'll be getting an order..... And I think I'll wait for your turret too. I have the MP turret laying around, and an old Verlinden (I think) turret as well, but the resin turret has obvious errors, even to my un-trained eye. Some of the detail parts may come in useful, but that's it. I have Tom Gannon's IDF Sherman book, and I'm pretty sure it's got a couple of pics of VVSS M50s with the Cummins rear deck, but I'll check again. The main pic I remember is of two columns of tanks, one of M51s with the Continental radial(!), and the other M50s with VVSS and the diesel engine deck. It's taken from the middle of the two parallel columns, facing the direction of travel, so the rears of the tanks are visible. It's a very interesting pic. Thoughts on the Model Point M50 barrel? I have a couple..... I'm in no hurry on this build, I get about 10 hours a month at the bench and have a couple of on-going projects now, plus I want to get in on the Tamiya Sherman GB, so it'll be a couple-three months before I get anywhere near it anyway.
Okay.... So is there anything really wrong with the early, exhaust-in-the-rear-plate, no louvers, early Cummins deck that Dragon supplies? It looked okay to me, but I'm not extremely well versed in that area. If it's nasty, you'll be getting an order..... And I think I'll wait for your turret too. I have the MP turret laying around, and an old Verlinden (I think) turret as well, but the resin turret has obvious errors, even to my un-trained eye. Some of the detail parts may come in useful, but that's it. I have Tom Gannon's IDF Sherman book, and I'm pretty sure it's got a couple of pics of VVSS M50s with the Cummins rear deck, but I'll check again. The main pic I remember is of two columns of tanks, one of M51s with the Continental radial(!), and the other M50s with VVSS and the diesel engine deck. It's taken from the middle of the two parallel columns, facing the direction of travel, so the rears of the tanks are visible. It's a very interesting pic. Thoughts on the Model Point M50 barrel? I have a couple..... I'm in no hurry on this build, I get about 10 hours a month at the bench and have a couple of on-going projects now, plus I want to get in on the Tamiya Sherman GB, so it'll be a couple-three months before I get anywhere near it anyway.
No, nothing wrong with that deck. My creation merely represents a variation of that deck which was fabricated entirely from plate stock. All the kit decks represent the more common form, where the M4/M4A1 panel with the bullet splash rail around the intake was cut in half and the pieces reversed and welded together with a spacer in the center. But the flat-plate decks were made, and I took my cues from an image in Gannon's book. I know the photo you refer to with the two columns of tanks...I'm on the fence about that. The radial deck is pretty clear on the M51s, but because of the photo angle and material obstructions on the sponson I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking at with the column of M50s.
I am not familiar with the Model Point barrel; the Barrel Depot one is pretty good. DEF's is quite nice, but you can't get it separately. I'm working a couple of irons in the fire for a metal barrel & resin muzzle brake to go with my turret, eventually. But I wouldn't hesitate to use the Barrel Depot one.
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
Super. You think the M50s might be M4A4 radial engines (M4A4T)?
Very possible. All early M50s regardless of hull type were built with the radial, so there were M4A3T and M4A4T hulls from France in the mix. Any M4A2 hulls would have had it fitted, too, though those would have been sourced from scrap yards in Europe or elsewhere. Given the time frame of the image, the M50s could be radials or Cummins. Tom Gannon thinks Cummins; I'm not sure. The quality of the image and the photo angle don't leave me convinced. The Transforme versions would look similar to Cummins from that angle, with the splash rail around the central intake.
Okay, cool. I appreciate the answers. I"m going to take another look at the photo, I really thought a Cummins engine and VVSS would be a neat combo, but I haven't committed either way yet. All I've got started is DML's M4A4 hull with a cast trans cover, so it's going to be a VVSS M50 one way or another.
One way to go with this would be to do an ex-Egyptian hull with the extra applique armor on the sides and the radial engine deck. It's plausible that such a tank might be painted in Sinai Gray if it was due for a depot overhaul in 1960-61 but not yet scheduled to re-enter the conversion line for Cummins & HVSS. At least, that's my theory until Dr. Manasherob publishes a volume with more definitive information.
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
Do you still have any M51 conversions available and when will the M50/60 conversion be available? My M50 is quietly waiting and the M51 as well>
Thanx
Doug
Doug, in a few days I will have six more M51 kits. Once those are gone, I will be back to taking names on a waiting list because I will have no more brass frets available. I can order another sheet which will set me up for another 30 kits, but it's expensive and lead time is a couple of months long. Steve Reid will have to make new molds as well, so the capital cost is substantial and I would want to be sure that customer demand is sufficient to justify the outlay. It probably is, but I'd rather have another dozen people say "Yes, please!" before I commit capital to it. The M60 HMGS conversion will be released in a week or two. I'm waiting for a big box of resin parts, and will have to QC the lot and start bagging assemblies. The instruction sheets need to be printed in volume, and I'm waiting for Eric Rains to provide feedback...the parts seen on his group build thread are the first prototype set.
Greg
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
Greg, do ,you, or does anyone make a M4A4(T) rear engine deck, or is it as simple as using a M4/M4A1 engine deck and filling the space with sheet plastic? Also, do you know if the lower radiator access was plated over? Thanks in advance for your help, Joel. P.S., when will the M50 deck be released?
Greg, do ,you, or does anyone make a M4A4(T) rear engine deck, or is it as simple as using a M4/M4A1 engine deck and filling the space with sheet plastic? Also, do you know if the lower radiator access was plated over? Thanks in advance for your help, Joel. P.S., when will the M50 deck be released?
Formations made an M4A4T conversion, though I don't know if John Rybak currently has it in the catalog. I believe that the radiator opening on the bottom was plated over with flat stock, though there's no reason the original domed cover couldn't have been retained.
As for the flat-plate deck, I don't have a release date set. I have to move some more of the M60 HMGS conversions to get a ways past the break-even point before I commit resources to adding another product to the line and stocking the inventory. Not to mention figuring out where to put said inventory...The hobby room is full of other modeling detritus, and the living room is currently my inventory/shipping area. Long term, that's not optimal from a spousal-happiness point of view...
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
OK,Greg do you have a listing of the products that you carry? thanks, Joel.
Sure, Joel:
A. Chilean M51 conversion, $40, 3 sets left. A resin & brass conversion for the Tamiya M51 to do the re-engined Chilean version; the last M51 in service anywhere. B. Chilean M60 HMGS, $45, many available. A resin, brass, and aluminum conversion for any kit to do a 60mm-gunned Chilean M50. C. Chilean M60 HMGS upper hull, $25. This replicates the unique Chilean variant built on the M4A4 hull, with enclosed drivers' hoods and driver's IR periscope. D. M4A4-based M50 lower hull for HVSS, $21. Mastered with Tasca parts, a complete lower hull to do a long-hull tank with HVSS. Challenging to assemble, not for beginners. E. Turned aluminum IMI 60mm HMGS gun barrel, $13. For upgrading the Verlinden M113 prototype kit or an M24 Chaffee.
Of course, shipping charges are added to the above and vary depending on where in the world the package is going.
In the development hopper are the flat-plate M50 deck and a new M50 turret. Threads and images covering all of these items are to be found here on the Sherman Shop forum, and I'll happily answer any questions sent to me at my regular email address, gtbuechler@hotmail.com.
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
Had you put any thought into doing a complete conversion for the Chilean M24, sorry I know it's not a Sherman. I am trying to find some good photos or drawings of the new engine deck, but I am not having much luck.
Had you put any thought into doing a complete conversion for the Chilean M24, sorry I know it's not a Sherman. I am trying to find some good photos or drawings of the new engine deck, but I am not having much luck.
Regards,
Rod
Yes, Rod, I have...and have the same problem. There are no drawings, and very few photos of indifferent quality. The engine deck has additional vent panels in the middle panel (solid with tools on it in WW2), and there's a new structure on the upper rear plate which appears to enclose a radiator...though it looks open on top? That doesn't make much sense. The engine deck is most definitely not the same as the Norwegian NM-116 variant.
I have asked a couple of my customers in Chile to see if they can provide some better close-up images with which to make master patterns for the AFV Club kit, but nothing has been forthcoming as of yet.
And oddly enough, the Chileans did not retrofit the 60mm gun to their M41 Walker Bulldogs.
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"
Time to update this thread as well, having just updated the Chilean M51 thread moments ago. The M50 Cummins Flat-Plate Deck will go into production, probably in the May 2015 time frame. The masters will be sent out for mold engineering next week. The pricing is expected to be towards the upper end of the estimated range, close to $20. So at long last this kit will be added to the product line!
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge!"